The Confederate flag today

Hitch caught me up short with this point in his recent anti-Huckabee tirade:

1) The South Carolina flag is a perfectly nice flag, featuring the palmetto plant, about which no “outsider” has ever offered any free advice.

2) The Confederate battle flag, to which Gov. Huckabee was alluding, was first flown over the South Carolina state Capitol in 1962, as a deliberately belligerent riposte to the civil rights movement, and is not now, and never has been, the flag of that great state.

3) By a vote of both South Carolina houses in the year 2000, the Confederate battle flag ceased to be flown over the state capitol and now only waves (as quite possibly it should) over the memorial to fallen Confederate soldiers.

Now almost everything Hitch writes might be called a tirade; in fact I agree with him 100%.

And it piqued my curiosity. What is the status of the Confederate flag? What states still feature it?
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The controversial flag itself, which of course, is properly the Confederate battle flag, was adopted when it was found that the official flag of the Confederacy, the Stars and Bars, too closely resembled the Union’s Stars and Stripes.
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The South Carolina flag, which Hitch mentions. Wholly unobjectionable.
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The Mississippi flag, which was changed to it present design in the 1950’s, also, as Hitch puts it, “as a deliberately belligerent riposte to the civil rights movement.” Yikes. A state commission in 2000 voted to retain this flag. Here’s the case to restore an earlier Mississippi flag, the “Magnolia” flag.

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The Georgia flag, which was adopted in 2003, after years of complaints about the previous design (which incorporated the Confederate battle flag, and was also adopted in 1956.)

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The Florida flag, obviously inspired by the Confederate flag. No significant objections to it. Update: Per Grim’s comment below, it comes from a Spanish flag.

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The Alabama flag. (See Florida comments.)

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The Arkansas flag, whose top star represents the Confederacy, again, without any public objection.

The other flags of former Confederate states show no resemblance to the Confederate flag.

The most noteworthy aspect of this topic is that, save Mississippi, no states actually incorporate the Confederate battle flag in their designs, and that where disputes have come up, they have been resolved through local state action, without much “outside agitation,” except for a few misguided morons like Mike Huckabee.

Comments

  1. a former european wrote:

    As an immigrant to the US, I must say I have always found american race relations to be unfathomable. Yes, slavery was evil. Nevertheless, slavery was a widespread practice throughout the world since the beginning of time. Arab slavers preyed upon african blacks, blacks enslaved other blacks of opposing tribes, Aztecs enslaved their meso-american neighbors, american indians enslaved their fellows from differing tribes, europeans enslaved the less-advanced peoples of eastern europe, particularly the slavs, and so on.

    Despite the universality of slavery in our world’s past, most of the rest of the world seems to have pretty much moved on from those dark days. The US, however, remains obsessively fixated upon this historical evil and compulsively seems to revisit it on every occassion. This is craziness. Judging someone purely on the basis of skin color is ridiculous on its face. We need to let it go and move on to a color-blind society envisioned by MLK, where people are instead judged on the content of their character.

    The rest of the world, mostly, has moved beyond slavery. Can’t we do the same? Who cares if some yahoos want to fly the Confederate Battle Flag? Let them proclaim their ignorance for all to see.

    If it is merely a question of offensiveness, then that too should be irrelevant. The Israeli flag is offensive to many palestinians, the Kurds hate the turkish flag, the Basques despise the flag of Spain, the Burmese separatists hate the flag of Myanmar, and the tibetans have no love for the chinese flag. This list could go on and on. Banning a flag because it offends someone would leave us with very few flags left at all.

    We need to leave the past behind and move forward.

  2. Grim wrote:

    I wouldn’t say we should leave the past behind. There’s a lot in that past to be proud of; and if there are some bad things there also, it’s a useful lesson in humility for what is nevertheless a great nation.

    There was an article over the weekend noting that Arkansas apparently celebrates MLK Day and Robert E. Lee’s Birthday as the same official holiday. In a sense, that’s very fitting. Each of them was an exemplar of the finest parts of our national character; each of them was likewise engaged in a great national struggle over the issues of race and slavery.

    In Robert E. Lee’s case, we see how an otherwise magnificent man — as with an otherwise magnificient nation — could be marred by its inheritance of slavery, yet still be noble, generous, courageous, and forgiving. In MLK’s case, we see how a man might suffer from the other side of that same heritage, and yet be noble, generous, courageous, and forgiving.

    Arkansas may have hit upon exactly the right formula for resolving the old problem; a considered juxtaposition of these two men might shed considerable light on the question of how to bring the last old wounds to a close.

    I read the article from Hitchens, whose argument I find mystifying. He excuses the Confederate National Flag, which is what Georgia’s new flag is, but takes offense at the battle flag; which is to say, he excuses the Confederate government, but not its army. That is the opposite of what seems reasonable, given the history. One can make a defense of the Confederate armies, which fought with gallantry.

  3. Grim wrote:

    Oh, by the way, the Florida flag was not inspired by the Confederate battle flag. It was inspired by the Spanish flag that flew over it during its days as a colony of Spain — see here.

  4. Feldspar Goldstein wrote:

    Grim,

    I grew up in Florida and never knew that.

  5. Grim wrote:

    I’ve always had an interest in flags and heraldry, which may be why I carry that sort of errata in my head. :)

    The old Confederate National Flag, that Hitchens thinks is OK, is here. It’s alongside the new Georgia flag for ease of comparison.

  6. Stephen wrote:

    The point here is that, in the mid-Fifties, as a deliberate provocation, three states resurrected the Confederate battle flag. The message of “let it go already” is best directed there.

    As far as I can tell, the most recent incarnation of the Georgia flag closely resembles the pre “segregation” flag. Along with other Southern flags, that have been around for a long time, but somehow refer to the Confederacy, it is unobjectionable.

  7. Grim wrote:

    Well, speaking as someone who grew up under one of those flags…

    A flag means a lot of things, and the main thing it means is, “Home.” Regardless of whether the good old boys of 1956 ought to have / ought not to have changed the flag, it was the flag I knew, and long before I’d ever heard of the Confederacy or the Civil War, it meant something to me. It meant I was home.

    I remember we’d come back from long trips and we kids would be exhausted from the drive, and how excited I would be to see that flag on the first flagpole once we crossed into Georgia. You can’t help but love a flag when you grow up with it that way.

    That’s the part of the debate that never gets said, because I don’t think people really understand it’s what is driving them; though Huckabee seems to have understood it. It’s not really about anything rational: it’s about that part of the soul that knows where home is, and what its symbols are.

    That’s why the suggestion to change a flag creates fury and resentment, and suggestions that ‘outsiders’ keep the hell out of it. There is an ancient, and deep, thread of human nature at work.

  8. The Unabrewer wrote:

    The United States flag was a symbol of government-sanctioned slavery for something like 75 years and of government-sanctioned racism for 175 years (give or take). Bring it down!

  9. Stephen wrote:

    Grim,

    Georgia changed it flag in 1879, 1902, 1906, 1920, 1956, 2001, and 2003. Seems to me, about the only thing consistent about the flag of Georgia is how often it’s changed.

  10. ben wrote:

    Grim,

    It’s not just Arkansas that celebrates Lee along with King; Virginia did the same until 2000. Lee-Jackson day merged with MLK day when Reagan declared that a federal holiday and became known as Lee-Jackson-King day. In 2000 the VA governor separated the holidays; Lee-Jackson day is now the Friday before MLK day.

    (separate-but-equal joke goes here)

  11. Grim wrote:

    If I pointed out that the 1956 flag served nearly twice as long as any other, or that it would still be the flag if put to a popular vote in Georgia, it would be missing the point. The point is to try and explain why people react the way they do — and why a comment like Huckabee’s can resonate. I’m not attempting to justify the flag here, but to explain the reaction.

    The assumption in the press is always that the emotion at work is a sort of closet racism, but really that’s not it at all. It’s a sort of nativism, to be sure, but it’s not directed against black Southerners — it’s directed against those who are not Southerners at all, but want to dishonor or strip away what is chiefly a symbol of home. You would get the same reaction, I think, if you told fans of England’s soccer team that they could no longer fly the St. George’s cross.

    Actually, you’d probably get a worse reaction.

  12. Stephen wrote:

    Grim,

    45 is not “nearly twice” 36. :)

  13. Grim wrote:

    You could be right. Since deploying to Iraq, I’ve lost faith in the concept that time is of a linear, measurable nature. I’m just sure the days are somehow going backwards here, and my return date is getting further away. :)