Creationist Morons Lose Again

Evolution warnings don’t stick

A suburban school board has abandoned its four-year legal fight to place stickers in high school biology textbooks that say “evolution is a theory, not a fact.”

In a settlement announced Tuesday in federal court, the Cobb County Board of Education agreed never to use any similar “stickers, labels, stamps, inscriptions or other warnings,” or to undermine the teaching of evolution in science classes.

In turn, the parents who sued over the stickers — charging that they promoted religion in science classrooms and violated the separation of church and state — agreed to end all legal action.

“The parents brought the suit because they wanted their children to have proper instruction in science,” said Debbie Seagraves, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Georgia. “It’s pretty clear the parents in Cobb County got what they wanted.”

Evolution has long been controversial in Cobb County, north of Atlanta, where some biology teachers used to tear pages out of textbooks to avoid discussing it. In 2002, after more than 2,000 parents objected to sections on evolution in a new biology textbook, stickers were placed on the inside of the front cover.

But, I suppose, they will be back for more. *sigh*

Comments

  1. Chief RZ wrote:

    Evolution is a theory. A law can be proven by replication. Some examples are gravity and Newton’s three laws of motion. On its face any idea that animals evolve into “higher” forms falls on its face immediately. All would be humans then. This is about communism that the ACLU has been pushing all forms of religion out of our public schools for decades. If you wonder why public schools are failing, it is because intelligent parents are homeschooling or sending their children to independent for religious schools.

    Posted 20 Dec 2006 at 8:56 pm

  2. dorkafork wrote:

    Oh for f*** sake.

    It’s not a hierarchy, law is not greater than theory, theory does not become law. Animals don’t evolve into “higher” forms, they adapt to their environment. This is not about communism, it is about people who have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to evolution trying to drag others down to their level of ignorance.

    Posted 20 Dec 2006 at 9:17 pm

  3. commissar wrote:

    Chief,

    What is a scientific theory?

    Posted 20 Dec 2006 at 9:34 pm

  4. Grim wrote:

    Speaking as a native Georgian, I take no responsibility for Cobb County. There are almost none of us left there. :)

    Posted 20 Dec 2006 at 11:41 pm

  5. Michael wrote:

    Chief,

    What is a scientific theory?

    Chief,

    Please don’t answer the question. You don’t know, and as a Christian, I don’t need the embarrassment.

    You still have a mean streak, Commissar.

    :)

    Posted 20 Dec 2006 at 11:50 pm

  6. John the Marine wrote:

    Evelution is indeed a theory… So, is molecular kinetics. Both are valid by the rules of the “Scientic Method” and both are supportted by a wealth of observable and varifiable data (some call them facts or even laws). The above can not be disputed.

    Commie, it seems to me that this topic, theory vs fact, has come up before. Don’t people ever learn?

    P.S. I’m a Christian.

    Oh, yeh… Merry Christmas to all, even those who are offended. Actually, especially those who are offended. Ho, Ho, ho…

    Posted 21 Dec 2006 at 8:34 am

  7. Commissar wrote:

    Merry Christmas to all!

    (from this atheistic guy of Christian heritage)

    BTW — John, Dorkafork, Michael, Grim, (and yeah, you too, Chief), I am quite touched that you would still read and even comment on my not-only-small, but largely suspended, blog. Thanks!

    Posted 21 Dec 2006 at 9:42 am

  8. canuckistani wrote:

    Speaking as one of those eeevil atheistic secular humanists, I’m not offended if you say Merry Christmas or Hail Satan to me. I’ll even say Merry Christmas to you, in a friendly, secular kind of way. Maybe because I live in a country where we aren’t having religious fundamentalism shoved down our throats, I can afford to be a bit more relaxed about it.
    If people were putting pro-creationism stickers on my daughter’s textbooks, I’d probably be a good deal angrier.
    So Merry Christmas! Or Happy Holidays, unless that’s offensive. :-)

    Posted 21 Dec 2006 at 3:46 pm

  9. John the Marine wrote:

    Well, i’m glad to see your a good sport there Canuckistani. Atheist like you are OK with me.

    However, I thought this statement somewhat strange.

    “Maybe because I live in a country where we aren’t having religious fundamentalism shoved down our throats, I can afford to be a bit more relaxed about it.”

    I think you might be a victim of misinformation. Religious (Christian) Fundamentalism isn’t being forced down anyone’s throat here in the U.S. The amusing part is if you talk to the religious right crowd they will tell you “Secular Fundamentalism” is being pushed on the American People by our secular humanist elite and media. Who’s right? Depends on who you’re rooting for and what your ideology is (the ACLU and the Christian Coalition have very different opinions on the matter).

    At any rate, Christmas is a wonderful time of year not only for celebrating Jesus Christ but for enjoying good times with all, Atheist or otherwise.

    Oh, yeh, back to the topic. Evelution is still good science and supported by an overwhelming collection of evidence. The Creationist need to give it up and stop making Christians look bad. Which reminds me; relax Chief the ACLU has grounded its Black Helicopters for the “Winter Holiday”.

    Posted 22 Dec 2006 at 8:18 am

  10. TallDave wrote:

    My favorite moment in this debate happened on the Simpsons, when the creationists show up and demand the school teach “an alternative to Darwinian evolution,” to which Skinner replies “You mean Lamarckian evolution?”

    Posted 22 Dec 2006 at 6:31 pm

  11. TallDave wrote:

    I wonder if Islamist schools teach evolution? Other than Jews evolving from pigs, I mean.

    Posted 22 Dec 2006 at 6:31 pm

  12. BloodSpite wrote:

    I have to agree with Grim. Cobb is mostly made up of implants from elsewhere :)

    Many moons ago I worked for Kennesaw State U (while it was Kennesaw State College heh) and the rub then was Cobb county was refusing to host an Olympic event due to the sexual preference of one of the Players.

    Some folks just don’t learn, and they’re some of’em

    Posted 23 Dec 2006 at 11:15 am

  13. joli wrote:

    John

    I think you might be a victim of seeing what you want to see. Read comment #8 again, more slowly this time.

    Posted 28 Dec 2006 at 5:31 pm

  14. John the Marine wrote:

    “I think you might be a victim of seeing what you want to see. Read comment #8 again, more slowly this time.”

    Joli,
    Perhaps it is you who needs to review their reading skills. My point is valid. Both sides accuse the other of pushing their agendas on the rest of us. However, since you lack a broader grasp of the U.S. let me make things a little more explicit. For every creationist sticker in a biology text book there is a removal of a Christmas display, or refusal to acknowledge this country’s Judeo-Christian heritage and culture, or an assault on horrible organizations like the Boy Scouts and so on, and so on. So, you see sweetie it is just a case of what matters to you. In closing maybe you should read # 9 a little more slowly, try wearing you glasses if that helps.

    Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 8:56 am

  15. canuckistani wrote:

    http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=801

    Saw this on Balloon Juice. Park Guides at the Grand Canyon are no longer allowed to tell visitors the geological age of the canyon for fear of upsetting biblical literalists.
    The Judeo-Christian heritage thing doesn’t wash with me. I hear the same thing from my relatives up here. Our countries were founded on principles of freedom and tolerance, not on living up to the 10 commandments. That’s why atheism and blasphemy are not against the law.
    If you want to set up a creche or a cross on your lawn, I have no problem with that. If you want me to pay with my tax dollars for a publicly funded creche, I’ll be pissed; taking my tax money to lie to my children. I’d be just as pissed if my money was used to teach my kids in science class that evolution was no better a theory than intelligent design, or that NASA can’t talk about the big bang, or that the Grand Canyon was created by Noah’s Flood. I support your right to believe whatever you like, whether it’s Jesus, Buddha, Spiderman or ET, but if you’re going to call it science and teach my children, you need more than a book of myths for evidence.

    Posted 29 Dec 2006 at 4:57 pm

  16. John the Marine wrote:

    Unfortunately this Country’s (US) founding is indeed rooted in a Judeo-Christian heritage. After all the Pilgrims came for religious freedom not to be Atheist. Also, the Christian God is referred to in our Founding Document, Declaration of Indepence, as well as the Federalist Papers.

    Now to be fair the Founding Fathers were heavily influenced by the philosophy of the “Enlightment” and to a large degree by John Locke’s 2nd Treatise on Civil Government & A Letter Concerning Toleration. These works were largely secular in their outlook and consequences. However, the main justification in both is that our rights are the gift of our creator, the Christian God, and can not be justly usurped by men.

    Fortunately for us (US) religious tolerance and belief are both cornerstones of our society. Weather you buy into it or not is irrelevant.

    “If you want me to pay with my tax dollars for a publicly funded creche, I’ll be pissed”

    You need to develope a thicker skin. I don’t like paying taxes for many things that I think are wrong on principle. Get over it.

    “I’d be just as pissed if my money was used to teach my kids in science class that evolution was no better a theory than intelligent design, or that NASA can’t talk about the big bang, or that the Grand Canyon was created by Noah’s Flood.”

    I share your outrage respecting the above though. God, Jesus Christ, to the best of my knowledge does not compell me to disregard reality or Science. Those who advocate such nonsense are doing immense harm to themselves and those who they influence.

    The problem I see between “Secular Humanist” and “Fundementalist Christians” is a disregard by both for Secular and Christian principles of “Tolerance”. To tolerate does not require agreement or acceptance but just live and let live. Like you I resent others forcing their morality on my children. Creationism (or ID if you like) is not science. However, some hippie grade school teacher telling my kids that God does not exist is equally abhorrent. In closing I’d say if both poles of this argument practiced real tolerance there would be no argument.

    Posted 30 Dec 2006 at 10:43 am

  17. commissar wrote:

    Canuck,

    I am sure that there are some Creationists pushing such nonsense in the Bush admin, NASA, and the Park Service.

    I am equally sure that this particular claim is exaggerated (by the good people at PEER who are anxious to sound the alarm). First, read the PEER link carefully. The read your comment again. You drew the inference that “Park Guides at the Grand Canyon are no longer allowed to tell visitors the geological age of the canyon.”

    When you read the carefully written statement, you’ll see there is an inflammatory lead sentence that is “almost’ saying that, but then the rest of it is largely about the sale of some stupid Creationist book at the Park bookstore.

    Next, check this link from the official NPS Grand Canyon website, which specifically mentions 1800 million year old formations.

    So, at a minimum, the Creationists havent purged the website yet.

    In sum: good concern, let’s keep the Creationist nonsense out of our Parks and official bookstores. But in this case, someone is exaggerating.

    Posted 30 Dec 2006 at 10:51 am

  18. Kristjan Wager wrote:

    Also, the Christian God is referred to in our Founding Document, Declaration of Indepence, as well as the Federalist Papers.

    Really? The only reference to any gods I can find in the Declaration of Indepence is to “Nature’s God”, hardly the Christian God - this is not surprising given the fact that many of the founding fathers were not strictly speaking Christians (rather they were Deists).

    Posted 31 Dec 2006 at 6:54 am

  19. The Sanity Inspector wrote:

    FWIW, the Cobb School Board was not trying to impose creationism, but trying to humor fundamentalist parents while expanding the teaching of evolution. A typical government consensus monster, trying to please everyone and achieving the opposite.

    Posted 31 Dec 2006 at 10:58 pm

  20. John the Marine wrote:

    Kristjan Wager,
    Who or what God do you think the founding fathers were refering to? Thomas Jefferson was indeed a “Deist” but his audience was 100% Christian. So, forgive my favoratism but I think it is safe to say he was talking about Jehovah. The point is; that to deny the huge influence that Judeo-Christian principles had on our founding and culture is disingenuous.

    Just for giggles. Our most important founding Father, George Washington, was No Deist, but a confirmed Christian (Anglican).

    Out of curiousity, besides Thomas Jefferson, can you name any of these many Deist? No, sarcasm. I’m honestly curious.

    Posted 01 Jan 2007 at 1:27 pm

  21. Ed T wrote:

    John,
    Ethan Allen, Thomas Paine definately. George Washington maybe (http://www.deism.com/washington.htm), Ben Franklin also a maybe as well as James Madison and Gouvenor Morris.
    Judeo-Christianity has certainly had a tremendous influence on the US but I don’t see any reason that the nation itself was defined as a “Christian” country. Otherwise, wouldn’t the Declaration and Constitution been much more explicit in referring to Jesus?

    Posted 04 Jan 2007 at 1:36 pm

  22. Pull Up A Chair wrote:

    Anyone who buys into the idiocy of Creationism is a ******* moron… Whoever “Chief RZ” is needs to understand what evolution is before attempting to debate the topic. Evolution is about changing to fit a specific set of challenges within an environment. It isn’t about becoming “human.” What a gold-standard ****** you are Chief.

    Posted 05 Jan 2007 at 4:26 pm

  23. John the Marine wrote:

    “I don’t see any reason that the nation itself was defined as a “Christian” country. Otherwise, wouldn’t the Declaration and Constitution been much more explicit in referring to Jesus?”

    1. Well, because the people that came here were a perhaps Christians? However, the U.S. has never been a Country where the Church lays down the rules.

    2. The Declaration and Constituion were/are not dealing with religious questions. But the Declaration mentions God in the begining and the Constitution talks about Blessings in its begining. So, it would seem that there was consideration of the Almighty’s view point.

    “Judeo-Christianity has certainly had a tremendous influence on the US”

    The above acknowledgement is true, but it is also true that we have a secular government. My problem stems from the observation that most can’t seem to understand this.

    Posted 08 Jan 2007 at 10:34 am

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